Talk:Strasbourg Cathedral

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Untitled[edit]

I looked at the German page on Notre Dame de Strasbourg, inserted it into google translator and then attempted to make the sentences that sounded correct in English (through either grammar or my previous knowledge of the cathedral from visitting Strasbourg) into the new basis of information about the Cathedral. If someone is a better translator it would be nice if they would take the information I left out and maybe make what I put sound better. user:grenavitar

Tallest church[edit]

A section of this article claims that this was the world's tallest church for a period after it had lost the title as the world's tallest building:

it was the world's tallest building from 1625 to 1847. It remained the tallest church in the world until 1880

However, the page World's tallest freestanding structure on land states that the building that took the title of world's tallest building in 1847 was St. Nikolai's church. How could St. Nikolai's church be taller than Strasbourg Cathedral in 1847, yet Strasbourg Cathedral still managed to remain the tallest church in the world until 1880? That makes no sense. Is it possible that it was supposed to say "it remained the tallest cathedral in the world until 1880" rather than church? Salmon 13:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Work on fr[edit]

There has been a lot of work on the French version of this page... any help incorporating it (pictures on commons, etc) would be great. Especially the stuff about the astronical clock. However, their page is still a work in progress as they say. gren グレン 08:36, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

What happened in 1625?[edit]

The article contradicts itself a little bit right now; at first it says the Cathedral was the world's tallest building from 1625 to 1847; later on it says it was the world's tallest from the completion of the north tower in 1439 until 1847. I believe the first is correct. There is some discussion of this on the German Talk page which I don't fully comprehend, but seems to refer to a tower in Tallinn. Seems to be St Olav Tallinn, which apparently was the tallest building in the world between 1549 and 1625 "when the spire burnt down after a lightning strike".
Actually I now see that this is explained at World's_tallest_structures#Tallest_structures_in_world_history: Lincoln Cathedral in England was tallest at 160 m until 1549, then St Olav in Tallinn from 1549 to 1625, and then Notre-Dame de Strasbourg. So I will change the article accordingly.--Mathew5000

Name of article[edit]

Based on the English-language index page of the Official Site, the name in English is just "Strasbourg Cathedral", not "Notre-Dame de Strasbourg" or "Our Lady's Cathedral". --Mathew5000 09:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

See move above - and below :-) .--Matthead 21:22, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Move to Strasbourg Cathedral[edit]

The article should be named Strasbourg Cathedral, as with most other cathedrals, and given on english version of official website [1]. Personally, I prefer Straßburger Münster though, as it was built under that name, and it is not part of the Catholic Church in France due to the history of Alsace.--Matthead 21:32, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Neutral. We don't have naming conventions for churches. I don't think there is a consensus on the naming, see Category:Cathedrals in France and Category:Cathedrals in Italy. Naming conventions for churches would be a good idea (but not easy). Kusma (討論) 21:40, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Support; although actual data might convince me otherwise. I doubt Münster is predominant English usage, especially since 1918; Cologne Cathedral is normally so called. The present title, on the other hand, leaves out the claim to notability. Septentrionalis 22:52, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Slightly Oppose Cathedrals like other Catholic Churches are dedicated to patron. The great majority are commonly known by this patron rather than by the city name. St. John Lateran is not known as Rome Cathedral. There are some exceptions of course, such as Chartres. What about "Cathedral of Notre Dame, Strasbourg?" If you are trying to avoid the French, that may be unrealistic, as the church is best known as N.D. de Stras. I noticed one the site referenced, The "Welcome to Strassburg Cathedral" changed with each language but the name, Cathedrale de N.D. de Strassburg remained the same on the left regardless of the language. This suggests to me that the "Strassburg Cathedral" is the familiar term, and N.D. de Strass. is the proper term. --Vaquero100 06:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment: The Lateran, which is so known, is an exception; several churches can claim to be the Cathedral of the Roman See. Also, it is general policy to use the familiar term; because it is familiar, and will be searched for and linked to. Septentrionalis 14:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. The criterion per WP:NAME is "what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize". Some English speakers are going to look at the title "Notre-Dame de Strasbourg" and say "wtf is that" (even if they had been vaguely aware of an important cathedral in Strasbourg they might not recognize its French name). An article titled "Strasbourg Cathedral", however, makes its subject-matter instantly apparent to any English-speaker. Google searches using the lr=lang_en parameter support "Strasbourg Cathedral" as most common in English by far:
notre-dame-de-strasbourg 532 hits
notre-dame-de-strasbourg-cathedral 133 hits
notre-dame-cathedral-strasbourg 735 hits
notre-dame-cathedral-of-strasbourg 213 hits
notre-dame-of-strasbourg 1,080 hits
strasbourg-cathedral 28,000 hits
cathedral-of-strasbourg 669 hits
strassburg-cathedral 157 hits
strasburg-cathedral 526 hits
straßburger-münster 99 hits
our-lady-of-strasbourg 234 hits
As noted above, the official site uses "the Strasbourg Cathedral" in English (even though the French name is present on every page of the site as part of the logo). The Official Web Site of the Strasbourg Tourist Office refers to it in English as just "The Cathedral" or "The cathedral of Strasbourg". In Wikipedia, the article Strasbourg cathedral bombing plot is not called Notre-Dame de Strasbourg bombing plot (right now there's not even a redirect). --Mathew5000 17:47, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
There's actually something weird about those Google results; if you ask for the results to be shown, searching on strasbourg-cathedral will produce only 758 hits, not 28,000. That's in comparison to 381 for notre-dame-of-strasbourg, 129 for notre-dame-de-strasbourg, 228 for notre-dame-cathedral-strasbourg, and 109 for notre-dame-cathedral-of-strasbourg. --Mathew5000 18:27, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Moved. —Nightstallion (?) 12:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

How far can you see from the observation level? 3, 30, or 300 km?[edit]

The German-language wiki article says the view is "drei Kilometer", which is what this article used to say. Then an unregistered user changed it to 300 km [2]. That was reverted, but then a user with only two edits changed it to 30 km [3]. That figure is reasonable (a view of three km is not that impressive, hardly worth mentioning) but is it a guess, or is there a source that can be cited? 300 km is implausible; that would be like being able to see New York City from a tall building in Boston. If 30 km is correct we should let them know on the German wiki.--Mathew5000 08:19, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

300 km wouldn't be that implausible; it depends on what can be seen: far-away but high mountains can very well be seen from tall buildings at similar distances. Gestumblindi (talk) 21:13, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Victor Hugo quotation: « Prodige du gigantesque et du délicat »[edit]

The article at present translates Hugo's description as "wonder of the grand and the delicate". I think in this case the word "gigantesque" really does mean gigantic. I prefer the quotation on this web page: "a gigantic and delicate marvel." Comments? --Mathew5000 09:23, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Photos of the astronomical clock[edit]

Are there any photos of the clock in the Commons? I don't see any. Looking around online, I found several good ones. Figures 22 and 23 in this pdf give a very clear view: [4]. That appears to be a pretty good paper done by students at the National University of Singapore. This German page has a few decent shots. There is a close-up of the gears at about.com as well as a shot of the face. There's also a few nice ones at Flickr: [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14]. --Mathew5000 18:46, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I took out the first couple of links. The photos were of the clock on the southern exterior of the transept. Dudesleeper 19:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, no wonder they looked so different! Thanks. --Mathew5000 22:04, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Figure 22 is not of Strasbourg's clock, it is of the model of the clock which is located at Sydney. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.81.8.90 (talkcontribs) 2006-06-24.

Construction started in 1176? or 1190?[edit]

Right now, the history section of this article follows that of the French wiki (fr:Cathédrale Notre-Dame de Strasbourg) in using the heading "Construction of the cathedral (1176–1439)". But did they really begin construction in 1176—the same year the old cathedral burnt down? That strikes me as unlikely for two reasons: (1) they would have needed a fair bit of time to draw up the plans for the new Gothic-style cathedral before beginning construction, not to mention time to raise money for it, and (2) the article says, translated from the French, that it was Bishop Heinrich von Hasenburg who made the decision to build a new cathedral, but according to this article, Heinrich didn't even become bishop until 1181. There are lots of sources on the Internet that give 1176 as the start date of construction of the current cathedral, but they might all be traceable back to an incorrect single source. There are a few web pages that give 1190 as the start date, which is more plausible. I asked about this on the French talk page (fr:Discuter:Cathédrale Notre-Dame de Strasbourg#Heinrich von Hasenbourg) but nobody has responded. --Mathew5000 22:18, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

When the old one burned down, the "construction" of the new likely started with cleaning up the mess. It would be noteworthy if they would have left the place intentionally alone for some time, though, or considered building elsewhere. Surely they had no finished plans in 1176, but some ideas on how it might become bigger and nicer than the old one. As is took centuries anyway, a few years more or less are not that big difference. Heinrich v. Hasenburg might have been involved prior to becoming a bishop, too, and have made an official committment when in office.--Matthead 23:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Height[edit]

The height of the Cathedral seems to oscillate constantly on this site. Unless proven otherwise, it is 142m, not 144m. It is not because some site claims that it is 144m that it is true. If you doubt that it is 142m, ask the OEuvre Notre Dame, do not believe a site with no references.Schwilgue 19:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Expansion of the article[edit]

Anybody here to assist me a little? --RCS (talk) 09:47, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Strasbourg's cathedral is, indeed, the highest still standing medieval structure in the world[edit]

After a quite comical exchange with a thoroughly well-meaning Wikicolleague, I feel necessary to repeat this:

  1. The tower of Strasbourg's cathedral was achieved in 1439 and hasn't changed one bit since in height, aspect and consistence.
  2. All higher church towers built in the Middle Ages have collapsed long ago (Lincoln Cathedral, Beauvais Cathedral, St. Mary's church, Stralsund, St. Olaf's church, Tallinn)
  3. All church towers built in the Middle Ages that are still standing are less high (St. Stephen's Cathedral, Vienna, Freiburg Minster and St. Martin's Church, Landshut come close)
  4. The highest structures built in the Middle Ages were church towers.

Thus, ergo, the tower of Strasbourg cathedral is the highest still standing medieval structure in the world. --Insert coins (talk) 09:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

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